This is going to make me some enemies, but I'm too cranky to care.

[kellinator]

Dear Everyone Who's Whining About What a Terrible Man St. Patrick Was and How Pagans Are So Oppressed,

I was looking forward to an evening of St. Patrick's Day fun with friends, so forgive me for being a little bit cranky about all the vitriol being launched on here today.

Are we Christians supposed to spend the day apologizing for St. Patrick converting Ireland fifteen hundred years ago? I'm no expert in Druidic practices, but how do we really know that the Druids were happy-love-everybody people and St. Patrick was a jerk determined to make sure no one was having a good time? It's not as simple as pagans good/Patrick bad (nor, I suppose, as simple as Patrick good/pagans bad). Imagine you're the person who got picked for the human sacrifice and see if you still think so.

Christianity is not all about hate and oppression, no matter what Jerry Falwell tells you. It's got some good ideas about kindness to one's fellow man. Many terrible sins have been committed in the name of Christ, but much good has been done too.

A lot of people out there seem to demand toleration for everyone but Christians. I almost didn't make this post because I knew it would piss people off, but that would be denying what I feel and what I believe. If it's okay for you to express your faith, then it's okay for me to express mine. I may be a lousy excuse for a Christian, but I still am one. If you want religious toleration, I think that's terrific, but you ought to have some for the Christians too. We progressive Christians have got enough to worry about with retaking our faith from the Pharisees currently in charge without having to constantly apologize for being Christian.

And I'm fucking terrified of snakes, so St. Patrick, you're okay in my book.

Comments

[tikimama.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure you can use the term "logical conclusion" in reference to Christian theory at all. It has no basis in logic, other than of the cyclical variety. Why do we do these things? Because God tells us to. And around and around. It is the Command of the Bible that you do these things, which is the only reason. It's the "know" part that those of us outside have an issue with. You have reached a conclusion using (what atheists consider) improper reasoning, therefore the conclusion is false.

I understand your point (and I am relatively well versed in theology) but I don't really think that most Christians can fall back on this reasoning. Because they pick and choose among what the Bible says to follow. Some of the old Testament, some of what Jesus says (but not the hard stuff), etc.

I appreciate that you took the time to explain it to me in a kind and considerate fashion (you do your religion proud), but I think in a pluralistic society witnessing is to be discouraged. I know many do it out of love, which is unfortunate.

[tikimama.livejournal.com]

I wrote a long thing about logic and evidence and being tolerant, but really, what's the point? I'll just give myself a headache.

It comes down to the fact that I don't believe in any God, and therefore the Bible has no relevance to me. You do and so it does. There is no logicing or presenting evidence that will make a jot of difference to either of us. We base our conclusions on different foundations.

I have the same level of tolerance/intolerance for everyone with religious beliefs anyway, so I totally agree with Kelly's original point.