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Inigo Montoya to the six-fingered man: I want my father back, you son of a bitch.

The Kellinator to John Ashcroft: I want my civil liberties back, you son of a bitch.

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From:

jonnyx.livejournal.com

During the last two World Wars things were changed for the duration of those conflicts.

As for WWI and WWII in particular, I'm well aware of the laws that were changed (and not changed back, though they were supposed to be temporary measures - income tax, anyone?), and those that were simply wrong, no matter how you define them (ie - detainment of US citizens of Asian ethnicity in US concentration camps, which I had never heard of until my Korean-American fiancee told me about it.)

Do I agree with your loss of the first and fourth amendment right, absolutely not.

It's not just my loss, it's every American's loss.

Laws are designed to be changed and are almost always broadly written with the ideas that they will have to be further clarified.

...which is ass-backwards in what is (supposedly) a free and open society where one is (supposedly) innocent until proven guilty. Vague, broad laws can be abused and perverted. This is part of the reason for jury nullification of bad laws (see the FIJA homepage for more info).

The government in this country is designed to work for the masses.

The government of this country has increasing only worked for the masses when the needs and desires of the general populace has happened to coincide with the interests of the largest corporations and wealthiest citizens of this country (hint - read some Chomsky, check out the Independent Media Center).

I understand your anger, but

...you're willing to give up my rights for your sense of security.

this is how things are changed. People come together as a group to change something. It sounds to me like you have plenty of reprsentation, why not use this infulence to change things.

You'll have to clarify the above before I can accurately reply to it.

If everything you say is true to the letter(I have not read the articles as I do not have time at work)

...so, you are essentially saying that you are OK with the contents of the USA-PATRIOT Act, even though you don't know it specifies? The two links I gave, Cornell and Politechbot, contain the text of the bill that was passed as well as the pre-USA-PATRIOT Act Code, straight from the House. Maybe you should actually read the text of the laws you now live under and consider the implications. If the legalese is too daunting, there are plenty of sites online that summarize how bad these new laws are. Do a Google search and learn what you are defending.

then you have a case, The liberties you have involuntary given up have crippled your lifestyle, that is when people make changes.

Not, not necessarily. The high courts, oddly enough, don't have to hear a case. There are many corrupt and politically connected judges, too, and many otherwise valid cases are refused that might result in the interests of the wealthy and powerful not being served.

From:

not-hothead-yet.livejournal.com

Consider:

making a law, even a constitutional amendment does not mean that life immediately goes to hell in a handbasket. Many laws were passed that stayed long enough to get immediately struck down by every court in a line. Checks and balances people. Our legal climate is NOT just laws. There is application (prosecuters, police, attorneys general) there is refinement (hearings, precedents, judges) and there is societal approval (various previous people NOT being reelected)

AND

Like it or not, this country is in an anxious state. Whether or not you agree with the emotional climate, understand that everything is NOT the same. Compromises are expected. How many wars have you lived through? hmm.. so you are unfamiliar with what is expected of you AND you expect that we respond as a nation in some proscribed manner.

You run an organization of "potentially dangerous" proportions and all your declarations of security and peaceable intent will not change the fact that what you are on about is perceived as a potential threat because it has been so before.

And now your activities are scrutinized? Whoa, BFSurprise. You weren't before???

I apologize to all the muslims and east-indo-africans and whosis who are having to put up with suspicions and some antipathy. I admire the patience my fellows americans who descend from a duskier skinned lineage have expressed in these times.

But you?
Keep crying ya big baby. Nobody's beating you up for looking wrong... count yer blessings.

From:

jonnyx.livejournal.com

"Like it or not, this country is in an anxious state."

All the more reason to act thoughtfully, not emotionally.

"Compromises are expected. How many wars have you lived through?"

Born midway through the Vietnam War (like you), lived through the undeclared war in Central America ('82-'84, mainly), the Gulf War/Oil War, the ongoing War on (Some) Drugs and the current War on Terrorism. We lose rights with each one. That good enough for you?

"You run an organization of "potentially dangerous" proportions"

I don't "run" any organizations, and I'd say my activities are far less harmful than those of Enron, Du Pont, Philip Morris or your typical drug dealer, child molester or violent criminal. My activities are as threatening as those of the Civil Rights movement, Food Not Bombs and the ACLU (which probably explains why I have been under observation on and off over the years). You are welcome, as is anyone else, to attend these gatherings and see for yourself.

And I will continue fighting (not "crying", thank you very much) threats to and losses of *everyone's* rights and civil liberties until the day I die, not that I particularly care about those who will passively give up anything the voices on the TV say they should give up. If the freeloaders benefit from the efforts of those who won't back down, maybe they or their kids will one day thank us.

"... Nobody's beating you up for looking wrong..."

Try being a punk in Nashville "Buckle-of-the-Baptist-Bible-Belt", Tennessee, during the 80's and early 90's. The harassment (beatings if caught alone - assholes tend to travel in packs, thrown bottles, gunshots on two occasions) finally stopped (for the most part) when it became fashionable for the frat guys to get tattoos and pierced and wear black leather jackets (gee, thanks eMpTyV).