Getting serious, for once.

[kellinator]

I'm curious about everyone's thoughts on this:

EDIT: I'm also very interested in the opinions of those outside the U.S. What do you think of the U.S. and its interactions with other countries? How's your economy?

[Poll #109254]

Comments

[pinkeffigy.livejournal.com]

I wasnt aware that is why Bin Laden hated us. Hmm... Funny, since that is how his Saudi Arabian family made much of thier money...

[fourtines.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's one of the reasons why Bin Laden hates the U.S.

Why is it funny? It's actually quite understandable that he would take an interest in our greed when he is separated ( and disowned) by his own family. He doesn't live off of his family's money anymore. His beliefs are radically "spiritual" in nature and no longer have anything to do with generating wealth. His jihad is intended to ( in his twisted mind) exault the Arab peoples and to obliterate our Western influence from countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. We have infiltrated their culture, and as Osama correctly predicted, once we set up a station in Saudi Arabia, we never left. We're all up in their business, and I for one do not agree with that. If we had minded our own fucking business ( our business being primarily concern for our own selfish use of oil for gasoline, not to "help" the Arab-Muslim countries) Osama Bin Laden would never have perceived the U.S. as "the enemy".

I don't side with him at all, mind you. Osama Bin Laden is a psychopath. His own family disowned him. But we are at fault for certain things, yes we most certainly are.

Re:

[pinkeffigy.livejournal.com]

I can't afford a hybrid car or the conversion you have discussed. I know many, many people who can't. They are like me. they drive a car they maybe spent 2000$ on in the first place.

I am at fault for many things. Would it be justified then for me to walk away if someone in my family was killed through some bizarre act of a nutcase? Or would it only be right to go and find that person, and bring him to justice, along with those who had been an accessory to that act.

If i could erase whatever has happened and could make everyone feel all happy shiny glowy about it, I would.

I don't like war. My father almost missed his high school graduation because he was drafted during Vietnam. We went to the wall to read the name of a boy my parents knew that died there.

Yemen, not pakistan ... and yeah, i did know that. But most people do tend to associate him with Saudi Arabia. I am not ignorant of the supposed motives of Bin Laden. but i cannot think that his ultimate goal is spiritual. He may say that. they may tell us that. but the reasons are ultimately lacking in that certain something...
oh wait. then there's that killing all the jews part....

Does that make it rightfor us to go to war? no.

I admittedly have a different point of veiw on this from most people. I do not wave frothily on either side of this arguement. I do not disagree simply because he is bush, and I do not disagree simply because its war. And I do not simply agree for either reason.

I have watched tons of new footage and pundits on either side of this debate.
i am neither a member of the democratic or republican or libertarian party.

He has to generate wealth for his operations. Weapons don't come cheap. You have to BUY them. Food for his friends, bunkers... all that has money behind it. Even the Japanese and American recording equipment he uses.

I admit Bush likely does have his own reasons for going there. But does it have to make EVERY other reason therefore wrong?

i openly admit I have not officially decided on this matter one way or the other. I have invested a lot of time into it. Pointing a finger in my face and saying "oh yes we have" isnt' going to make my decision any easier.

In fact, responses like the ones this poll from Kellinator garnered are exactly what turns me off and causes me to respond the way I did.

[fourtines.livejournal.com]

No one "causes you to respond" in any such manner. The way that you choose to react and express yourself is your own responsibility. Aside from making you feel things, another person can't "make" or "cause" you to do anything, even if they have a rifle pointed at your head.

Attacking Iraq with mega-force weapons is not the same as defending your family. Sadaam Hussein is an asshole, but I'd like to point out that Osama Bin Laden isn't the dictator of Iraq, and this impending war has little to do with Bin Laden. Furthermore, it saddens me that so many people in the United States are too short-sighted to assess just how much damage this war could cause - not only in the Middle East, but in the United States. War is expensive, and with so many other countries in protest of this war, it will make even civilian life in the U.S. far more dangerous. You think that terrorists are a threat now? Wait until the world really starts viewing Bush as the madman that he is. Then we'll be "the enemy". You don't think so? Then go on being apathetic and naive. That's entirely your decision.

I'd like to point out that I said originally that the transition from petrol cars to other alternatives should be GRADUAL. I don't expect everyone to go out and buy a hybrid car at the moment - but if solar and electric powered cars slowly became the norm instead of the exception the price of the cars would plummet.

[marlowe1.livejournal.com]

No one "causes you to respond" in any such manner. The way that you choose to react and express yourself is your own responsibility. Aside from making you feel things, another person can't "make" or "cause" you to do anything, even if they have a rifle pointed at your head.

So you are NOW saying that Osama Bin Laden has a choice and it isn't the U.S. intervention that caused him.

Make up your mind.

[marlowe1.livejournal.com]

If we had minded our own fucking business ( our business being primarily concern for our own selfish use of oil for gasoline, not to "help" the Arab-Muslim countries) Osama Bin Laden would never have perceived the U.S. as "the enemy

Considering that we also helped him fight a guerrila war against the Soviet Union you're entire way of thinking is stupid.

ANd would Hollywood movies not reach Saudi Arabia without the military? I think not. Baywatch is just as harmful to Islamic extremists as U.S. military intervention.

[fourtines.livejournal.com]

By the way, his family isn't Saudi. They live in Saudi Arabia, but Bin Laden's family is from Yemen.