kellinator: (Religious Left by mhari)
[personal profile] kellinator
Finally someone is getting it together to let everyone know that the Religious Right does not speak for all the Christians in America. Check it out:

Sign the Jacksonville Declaration of the Christian Alliance.

I especially love their attempt to extrapolate what Jesus would say, according to the Religious Right:

"You are strong and powerful; your ideals are noble. Make war to spread those ideals."
"The end is near - So it doesn't matter what you do to my Father's creation."
"Heal the sick - Provided they can pay."
"All are welcome at the table - As long as they are the same as we are."
"Follow me - And help me form a government to force others to follow."

Good stuff. I really hope these folks can get off the ground. At any rate, I'm just happy to see them speaking up.
(deleted comment)

Date: 2005-06-23 05:30 pm (UTC)
winterbadger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] winterbadger
Why sign it if you're not Christian? It's a declaration by Christians about Christianity. I'm fully in support of their motives, but I don't really think I have any standing to be telling Christians how to be Christian.

Date: 2005-06-23 05:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Eh, ya doesn't has to be Christian to understand what Jesus was trying to say.

Date: 2005-06-23 05:36 pm (UTC)
winterbadger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] winterbadger
Not necessarily, no, but I think one has to participate in a religion to have the right to a voice in how it should be practiced or represented. How would pagans (or Jews, or Muslims) feel if a whole lot of Christians started telling them that they didn't know how to be pagan properly? Would that message be greeted with tolerance, acceptance, or respect? I'm glad the Christian left is beginning to get it house in order, but it's *their* house, not ours.

Date: 2005-06-23 05:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Hmm, you have a point, although I would welcome discourse from an educated Christian regarding the nature of the deities I worship (or respect, or however you wanna put it). Questioning one's faith is how we discover its depth and its strength. People who DON'T want to see their God from others' points of view are the ones this letter is talking about, I feel.

Date: 2005-06-23 06:17 pm (UTC)
winterbadger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] winterbadger
I would agree that questioning one's faith can often lead to a better understanding of it and a deeper connection (it can also lead to disillusionment and apathy, but that's another issue). But I would think that the people best suited to make that exploration are people who believe in the faith in the first place. Someone might become extremely learned in the history and theology of a religion, but I question who would feel that such a person would be a legitimate figure to tell members of that religion what they ought to believe, how they ought to practice their faith, or how they ought to translate that faith into practical ethics.

(deleted comment)

Date: 2005-06-23 06:26 pm (UTC)
winterbadger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] winterbadger
I'm just not sure that lots of non-Christians participating in the discussion alongside the Christian liberals is going to help. I'm inclined to think that it will hurt their case, if anything, by making some of their co-religionists feel as if they are under attack from outsiders. I really think it would be a lot wiser to step away from the discussion and let the Christians settle this on their own. I know how people at the synagogue I was a member of felt about the "Jews for Jesus" who, basically, come along and try to tell Jews "You're doing it all wrong!"

(deleted comment)

Date: 2005-06-23 08:47 pm (UTC)
winterbadger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] winterbadger
I guess I'm pissed off at the hypocrisy in general for all of the things that Jesus did (I personally believe that he was a prophet and did and said some wonderful things) and then for people to turn it into hatred and bigotry.

I agree! A lot of my concern about getting involved comes from being in a rather unusual position, a Christian who left the church and went to another religion, but who still has many friends and family who are Christians (even clergy).

But it does truly astound me how people can take (and have for centuries) what seems to be a straightforward teaching (if a complex one) about love, respect, inclusiveness, and humility, and turn it into something about violence, militancy, exclusiveness, and brutality. Humans can do the most amazing things. :-(

Date: 2005-06-23 05:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Heh, I just sent that to my mom, the Fundamentalist who's been largely shunned at church because she openly supported Kerry. Somehow I think that she'll like this.

Date: 2005-06-23 05:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Did you see this post in [ profile] metaphorge's journal? I think it might interest you.

Date: 2005-06-23 05:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I keep thinking of some spoof site which sold the "jesus voted republican" thong....

that being said, the church they are picketing in front of is truly scary--brainwashing fundamentalism for the masses!

Date: 2005-06-24 04:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Holy Shit! That's my home town! Yay!


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