A bit on dating from a female point of view

[kellinator]

(first posted by neteng, reprinted with permission)

I find this fascinating and disturbing and am dying to open it up for discussion. True? False? What about women?

Why SOME of You Guys Are Having Trouble Meeting Women
(This wasn't written by myself - I'm not crafty enough to realize some of these things on my own.)

- You don't want any woman larger than a Size 4
- You don't want any breasts smaller than a 36C
- You want only white or Asian women (who fit the above physical requirements)
- You want her to have a career, but not be so focused on it that it takes attention away from YOU (otherwise she is a frigid, career-driven bitch)
- You want her to be sexually adventurous and kinky, but not to have had an adventurous or kinky past (that makes her easy, a slut, a piece of meat)
- If she wants kids, she's trying to trap you; if she doesn't, she's a frigid manhating,kidhating, family-hostile feminist bitch
- You want an educated woman but who isn't strident/opinionated/bitchy
- You want a girl who looks like a model (stylish and put together) but not one who is overly concerned with fashion or materialism
- You don't want a 'dinner whore' but if a woman pays for dinner your manhood is insulted
- You whine about why women don't smile at you on the street, and when we explain to you that many men basically consider it an invite to harass or threaten us you discount what we've said - do you listen, or do you just want to hear yourselves talk?
- You say you want a super smart or super sexual woman but you are totally threatened by them
- You think women are there to validate your existence/good looks/success/blah blah blah
- You throw your good looks/money/success/flash car around as bait and then wonder why you attract gold-diggers
- You spew hatred towards women and then wonder why women can't stand you - do you think we're stupid?
- You insist til you are blue in the face that there are no good women left in SF when there's actually an army of them - they're just not the brainless, spineless, 98-lb geisha dolls you really want
- If you want a woman that is beautiful, in shape, smart, successful, gracious, etc., you just have high standards for yourself
- If a woman wants a man that is all of the above, she is unrealistic, expects perfection, and should lower her standards and 'get real'.
- You really don't want a woman who's an equal. You want a combo-platter whore/housekeeper/mommy. No one wants to be your Mommy, buddy. Or your whore or housekeeper for that matter.
- You want the hot pussy but you don't want to be obligated to call her afterwards. WTF?
- If a woman 'gives it up' too easily and fucks you without a bunch of dating and dinners, etc., she's a whore/slut
- If a woman won't fuck you until you've had a bunch of dating/dinners, etc, she's a gold-digging dinner whore
- You always talk about what women should be doing for you instead of what you could be doing for them to show them how much you enjoy their attention/time/energy - this goes both ways
- You blame women for your dating woes instead of either asking yourself if the issue might be you or all the other men who treat women like shit and force us to be wary and self-protective

Of course I am playing devil's advocate a little bit, but from what I read posted on this site all the time you guys seriously do demonstrate the above. Guys (and girls, too, for that matter), wake up. People are people. I'm a woman and believe me, it's just as hard meeting decent men in SF as women, if not harder. No one has a monopoly on malice or virtue, but I do think men are by and large pretty ignorant of the daily reality of women's lives and what a struggle it is and continues to be. Life is struggle for men, too, but you are NOT subjected to the same type of BS (namely, sexual) we are (when was the last time you smiled at a woman on the street and she followed you and threatened to rape you? When was the last time someone got you pregnant and bailed on you? When was the last time you went into a corner store to buy a Coke and the guy behind the counter told you to give him a smile? and that's just the tip of the iceberg).

Everyone just get real.

Comments

[sirinek.livejournal.com]

Whoever wrote this really needs to get a grip.

Of all my male friends and even the men who aren't my friends, I really can't think of anyone who fits even most of these.

Sure there are no shortage of men who are shallow, but the number of women is just the same.

[ardentdelirium.livejournal.com]

I second this view

[kellinator.livejournal.com]

Whew, that's a relief.

[spiritchaser1.livejournal.com]

ouch. What a bitter person. I'm sorry they were hurt so much they feel the need to spew this sort of hatred. I wish them healing (and I wish it for myself, since I found myself agreeing with some of those)

[tygerlilly.livejournal.com]

Someone is obviously pretty pissed off, but that doesn't give them the right to stereotype. I have always disagreed with the whole "it's a guy thing" or "guys do this blah blah blah it's in their nature" what a joke! It's a personality thing. And it's being a superficial silly person. There are some women out there that fit this description too. I wish no one did, and I definitely don't know anyone that could have all these traits. Someone is a very bitter person.

[ex-ilk.livejournal.com]

It may seem a bit on the bitter side, but I think unfortunately much of it rings true. When I see criticism focused on gender, what I usually try to do is juxtapose and see what it looks like. See if it all fits?

A few days ago lockergnome posted a story that seemed to be written almost as a humor piece. (what it was doing in tech news, I'll never know) A woman sat on her ex boyfriend's chest and killed him by beating him with her high heeled shoe. She was charged with manslaughter.

ok... switch genders.

See what I mean?

I think it's important to point out that there is emphasis on the word SOME. This is why some of you guys are having a hard time meeting women. But this is where we differ.

These guys ARE meeting women. I think part of the responsibility for perpetuating this nonsense in men lies with women who put up with it, and dare I say.. occasionaly... find themselves drawn to this type of behaviour/personality type.

Some would argue this could double as a "guide to getting laid".

Even more important, to me, is making sure that even though I believe this is somewhat accurate, I do not fit those stereotypes.
Thank gahd.

[atomicnumber51.livejournal.com]

Hrm, I'm going to chime in as a woman trying to meet men in SF...

None of my friends are like this, but...

When I was single and actively looking, I was hanging out in bars in Russian Hill and the Marina and stuff (trying to meet straight men - this is an issue in SF) and met a lot of yuppie stock brokers and investment bankers and so forth... I would be talking to a guy at the Buc, he'd ask what I do or where I went to school, and then get all disapointed when I told him and say, deadpan, "Oh, you must be smart." and that would be the end of it.

I've definately seen when I go out that nothing gets attention like shooting pool in a tank top, and guys do talk to my chest. I've also had guys get really angry with me when they bought me a drink or two, then I *didn't* invite him home. And these guys are not particularly buff, kind-of stupid-looking haircuts, pool chalk straked across their shirt or something...

Even dressed normally for work, I walk down the street in my neighborhood, or worse, be standing outside of the Bell smoking, and guys walking or driving by will comment, the nicer ones just check out my chest and wistle or say something like, "hey sexy," or "seniorita bonita" the not so nice ones are usually in a car, drunk buddies hanging out the windows yelling something like, "how much?"

I've had a guy try to feel me up in a dance club, and when I got indignant, he answered, "but you let me buy you a drink!"

I *is* worse in SF than it ever was in Nashville or it is in Lexington when I go home. This city is *way* oversexed. Sluttiness is everywhere. Monogamy is one of those things some people do, but nobody talks about.

There's this funny attitude like girls should be party girls who have a good time and seek sex in a stereotypically masculine un-emotional way, but if you want to find a guy for a real relationship, then you have to "play good" It's weird. It's easy to get bitter in this city.

Maybe it's the dichotomy between the influence of the gay male club culture, and more traditional gender roles.

[dslartoo.livejournal.com]

Well, I could go down the list and explain why 99% of them are false in my case, but I don't see the point.

Stereotyping may be based on real life, but there's a difference between stereotyping and painting with not just a broad brush, but a hugely overspraying paint sprayer. This is the latter. We most definitely are NOT all like that.

cheers,
Phil

[danorsong.livejournal.com]

I know a guy just like this who is convineced that I wqould be willing to hook him up with any one of my friends. I gave him a big hell no.

[bethynyc.livejournal.com]

I think this just points out that bars/clubs are just not the places to go to meet someone nice.

If a guy wants to meet a nice woman, or vice versa, and the person has no unreasonable expectations as listed above, especially the first few, then you neet go go elsewhere. Get involved with a reading group. Go do things that you enjoy doing and you will meet people who enjoy doing the same thing.

As far as I am concerned, bars/clubs are where the stereotypes go to "hook up". If you don't want to meet a stereotype, go hunting someplace else.

just my 2 cents--though I've been out of the dating game for quite a while!

Weeeeell

[reannon.livejournal.com]

I started off reading and thinking, "Go girl." Talking about the size issues, being threatened by intelligence, wanting her to be adventurous without an adventurous past, ambitious without actually caring about her career, sexual without being a slut... that made sense.

But the rest started to seem overboard. Yes, some men are some of the above. But all men are not, and some men are none of the above. Among the men I've known, most admired ambition and intelligence. But I often found it was only skin-deep. Take Archangel - he was always proud of my accomplishments and interested in my career, until it meant that I wasn't home at 6 p.m. to make dinner, and he'd call at the office to ask me when I was coming home because he was hungry.

So yeah, it's bitter - but there's real-life experience behind it. Then again, I'm bitter. :)

[p-l-a-n-e-t.livejournal.com]

mental note: never ever ever date that girl.

[p-l-a-n-e-t.livejournal.com]

or was it a guy who wrote that? that would be even more twisted...

Re:

[kellinator.livejournal.com]

No, it was a girl. Though I have no idea of the original author's identity otherwise, so I guess it could be a guy...

[shawnj.livejournal.com]

That was my thought, exactly. I bet her saliva would taste like four-day old coffee grounds with that level of bitterness.

[crowyhead.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's one angry person. And I feel for her -- guys can be huge creeps, and I've experienced at least some of this behavior. But stuff like this sort of bugs me, because I start to think of all the guys I know, and all the guys who've actually fit the stereotype that she's drawing on here, and honestly, I know more nice guys than jerks. Now, that might be partly because I just stay away from jerks, but... I've dated one guy who fit the stereotype. He was an abusive prick and I'd be happy never to see him again. But that's one guy out of (counts fingers) thirteen.

I'm also a little disturbed by the "98-lb geisha dolls" thing, because it seems to me she's perpetuating a stereotype about Asian women. She may just be referring to the stereotype, but it sort of bugs me all the same.

[atomicnumber51.livejournal.com]

Hrm...

Come to think of it... There *aren't* a lot of tall guys on the bar scene I don't think... Height isn't a big criteria for me, so I haven't paid much attention...

Looking at the girls who are my "competitition" out in the bars, I have to say that the girls present a pretty unflattering group persona as well. Some spectacular fashion victims (black satin cargo capris with nude strappy stilleto sandals? as if!), those cliquey tribes of girls that ridicule every guy in the place whenever their back is turned, the bitches that piss on the seat in bar bathrooms (as if it wasn't nasty enough, bitch), girls that go out with the intention of getting guys to buy them drinks with no expectation of at least providing a few minutes of pleasant conversation in return...

Not all SF girls are like this, of course, not even all girls in SF bars are like this, but you're right, the bar scene is pretty brutal on both sides.

[gamgee.livejournal.com]

Just as a comment, horseshit. Either I'm totally halucinating or I don't fit this stereotype of guys at all.

Yet I'm so painfully single it's not funny.

Oh, and um... I hate to admit it, but of course you're going to find skeezy guys in dive bars.

[atomicnumber51.livejournal.com]

That's why she says "some" guys instead of "all" guys.

Come on, Bar None is packed with guys like this. (And they're also painfully single)

Almost part of the reason you have struck out so much is that girls in SF won't give you the time of day because they *expect* guys to act like the above.

true enough

[pxlboy.livejournal.com]

broad brush or not, there is some truth to the somewhat exaggerated tone. stereotypes exist not only in closed minds, but for the many out there who serve only to perpetuate certain stereotypes. but i imagine that in a larger metro like SF, that these sorts of exaggerations may not be blown that out of proportion in such a list as this. but it's true, people really need to mellow out. oh, and intelligent women are sexy...don't let anyone tell you differently..

Re: true enough

[dslartoo.livejournal.com]

oh, and intelligent women are sexy...don't let anyone tell you differently

Well, duh. That's why I'm dating vill.

cheers,
Phil

[leahpet.livejournal.com]

I understand that some of this is exaggerated, but I've experienced a lot of it myself, and I'm in Atlanta...and MARRIED. I don't even do the bar scene. I could rant on this for hours, but I'll spare you.

[leezechka.livejournal.com]

Sounds alot like New York as well.

[astrophysicat.livejournal.com]

The reason this is funny to me, is that the guys who do fit large parts of this stereotype are also the ones least likely to ever notice it or think it's unrealistic. Any guy who can look at this and say this isn't me, what is she talking about? (A) had never had to date these guys and (B) doesn't need to read it anyway.

what does it say about me, that I didn't bother to think about the author as bitter until everyone and their neighbor bothered to point it out? hmmm. not a good sign...