kellinator | Levels of canon (heavy on the Homicide/L&O/Bab5 references)

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Levels of canon (heavy on the Homicide/L&O/Bab5 references)

Last night TNT was again airing the first Law and Order/Homicide crossover, Charm City/For God and Country, and it hit me at some point near the end: I am convinced that at some point during that crossover Tim Bayliss and Claire Kincaid got it on. Or at least made out passionately in the alley behind the Waterfront.

It got me thinking about the different levels of canon and subtext which relate to interpersonal relationships between characters. They don't have to mean sex but they usually do because what's the big deal about showing two characters are buddies? Shows will usually come out and show that. There are a few types:

Official Canon: It happened onscreen and there's no denying it. Example: Sheridan and Delynn, Falsone and Ballard *retch*. Personally, I think people are least interested in these because it happened, we know it happened, reading between the lines is much more interesting. (Note: I am still only halfway done with Babylon 5. If you spoil me, I will gut you.)
Semi-Official Canon: You thought you could read it between the lines, and then one of the head honchos confirmed it in an interview. Examples: Jack and Claire, Susan and Talia, Tim's love for Frank
Official-in-My-Head Canon: You think you can read it between the lines, nobody's made it official but you're still convinced. Examples: the above-mentioned Tim and Claire, Munch and Kay (at least on his side), Alex and Olivia
Because-I-Said-So Canon: There's absolutely no evidence, but that's not stopping you. Examples: Most slash, almost anything edie22 writes, anything I write in which Munch and Kay are actually having sex.

So, what are your favorites in the last three categories?

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Even though you say it's true, I'm still not convinced that Jack and Claire ever did it.

It's not me, honest!! Dick Wolf said so!! (For what it's worth, apparently Jill Hennessey didn't they ever did it either.)

I go as far as Official In-My-Head Canon. I kind of prefer having a touch of evidence to back it up. Maybe it's because slash never did a damn thing for me.

Oh, and a cute tidbit about Jack/Claire on L&O. Everyone was always going back and forth on did they/didn't they. Then someone (maybe Wolf) confirmed in an interview - after her "death" - that "they did." Which came as a hell of a shock to Jill Hennessy, who said she'd been playing it all along as "they didn't." But not to Sam Waterston, who'd been playing it all along as "they did."

(Personally, I loved that episode. The missed connections in the bar, the "hell with her" that he so clearly didn't mean, "At least she's Irish," and of course the crash... SOOOO tragic. Arguably my favorite episode.)

I love that story. I was trying to convince

renaissancekat of it above.

And regarding that episode, you must read this, titled "Aftershock of a Different Kind":

http://www.livejournal.com/community/thursday100/121257.html

and its sequel:

http://www.livejournal.com/community/thursday100/123246.htm

if they were ever in the same room, then you can slash them.

Or, hell, if they *could* have been in the same room. =)

So we can slash Howie and James Marsters?

hahahaahahahaah

um. If you want to, sure. But, you probably shouldn't tell Howie about it.

*giggles*

The Doctor and Liz, the second Romana, Tegan and Bernice.

Mind, those are the only ones where it makes any sense whatsoever on even a really, really long branch, but, man, get around a "trad" Who fan (as opposed to "rad") and start talking about why the Doctor was so irritable and resigned to death after Tegan left him, and boy howdy can you raise some hackles.

Can't really comment, not having seen Dr. Who!

Unfortunately, my favorites are all in fandoms I don't think you're familiar with.

Semi-Official Canon: Wesley and Angel (Angel: The Series -- one-sided crush on Wes's part), Spike and Angel (Angel: The Series -- past sexual involvement)

Official-in-My-Head Canon: Jack and Skaara (Stargate: SG-1 -- because a grown man hugging a teenage boy that much is just too fraught with implications)

I Don't Even Call This Canon: Spike and Xander (Buffy The Vampire Slayer -- this isn't remotely implied by canon, I don't perceive it as canon, but I still enjoy reading the fics for some odd and unexplainable reason)

Oh, and I forgot to mention Sinclair and Delynn (Babylon 5), because they were so obviously in love before the network forced JMS to get rid of Sinclair in favor of Sheridan, who abruptly became the new love interest. I guess I'd call that one Canon-in-My-Mind, though it might be Semi-Official Canon.

Oooooh, for real? Is JMS on the record for this? I don't think I thought it at the time (

wacko1138, who is taking me through B5, didn't show me all of the first season for some reason -- he says we'll go back and watch the ones I missed later), but yeah, I think I can kinda see that (though I also liked them just as friends). And yeah, if so, then he loved her even before she got all "hot" and stuff!! I love Sinclair sooooo much more than Sheridan...

JMS was clearly setting up Delynn from the very beginning to eventually have a relationship with the commander of Babylon 5. If you watch the first season all the way through, I think you'll see the Sinclair/Delynn romantic stuff slowly building. Of course, when JMS was forced to get rid of Sinclair, it all had to suddenly shift gears. Sigh.

I've been watching Babylon 5 on DVD, and listened to the commentaries by JMS, in which he talked about his being forced to get rid of Sinclair (along with many other stupid things the network forced him to do), but I don't remember if he spoke specifically about the Sinclair/Delynn stuff. That's why I said it *might* be Semi-Official Canon ... I haven't really researched the issue, but from what little I have heard and read it seemed fairly clear.

Oooh, I didn't know Spike and Angel had gotten it on. *giggle*

In one of the most recent Angel episodes, Spike said something along the lines of, "Angel and I have never been intimate. Except, well, there was that one time..." Hee.

Yeah, I heard that one and thought, "Wow, the slash fans are squeeing tonight."

Ha ha! I have no idea what you're talking about.

That's cool too!

For what it's worth, apparently Jill Hennessey didn't they ever did it either.

I think the story is that Jill played the situation like they didn't and Sam played the situation like they did. Anyway, in his big-ass coffee table book, His Highness, King Wolf confirmed Jack and Claire had an affair.

I am convinced that at some point during that crossover Tim Bayliss and Claire Kincaid got it on.

Oh, they so did it. There was entirely too much sparkage between them to let it all go to waste.

So, what are your favorites in the last three categories?

Hee. You asked for it. Actually, I'll cover all four categories.

Official Canon: Cassidy and Benson. OK, this one is weird and bears some explanation. Cassidy was the wet-behind-the-ears character on SVU. I think he was meant to be the audience's representation. He was definitely my representation in "Closure". Brian was never a favorite of mine, but my heart broke right along with his when Olivia made it clear she wasn't interested in pursuing a relationship. Dean's hurt puppy look said it all. Given that, I'm glad the tryst never went anywhere. Even though I felt bad for Brian, it was interesting to see the woman being the love 'em-and-leave 'em type.

Semi-Official Canon: Tim's love for Frank is a favorite of mine, too. I love Bayliss and I'm in awe of Pembleton and I loved their partnership, so it just makes sense to me.

Official-In-My-Head-Canon: This is too, too obvious: Alex and Olivia. I worshiped Cabot from the first episode I saw her in, although, I must admit I didn't buy into the A/O 'ship 100% until "Loss." I was a hopeless convert after that and started looking for the least little sign of HoYay during all the reruns. It's amazing how much of it there is if you look hard enough.

Because-I-Said-So Canon: Stabler and Cabot. I loved, loved, loved the antagonism that occurred between them early on. Those shouting matches were so hot. Plus, I got this stubborn idea in my head that Elliot and Alex possibly had a one-night stand after "Execution". And, even if they didn't, I still say those two had UST to burn.

Oh... wow. I had never thought of Stabler and Cabot, and though I get totally annoyed with the teenyboppers at Fanfiction.net who are totally obsessed with Stabler divorcing his wife and getting with Benson, Stabler and Cabot has possibilities in a really dark and twisted way... Dammit, I never write smut, and thanks to you, I'm thinking about writing kinky smut!! My reputation will be ruined...

And yeah, totally with you on the gender role-reversal with Olivia and Cassidy.

Word on the teenyboppers at ff.net comment. I can't get behind E/O to begin with; and, the way most of it is presented over there is heinously wrong. When I consider Stabler and Cabot, their chemistry is the complete opposite of that gooey romantic stuff that pervades E/O fic. It's all about the adversarial tension. In my opinion, outside of hot, cathartic sexual encounters, Alex and Elliot are pretty incompatible relationship-wise; they'd drive each other crazy. Although, I actually think Alex would be difficult with anybody and that includes Olivia. But I digress...

I would be pleased as punch if you took a stab at some kinky A/E smut.

The station blows up.
Everyone dies.
Earth is destroyed.
The end.

Wanna know what happens in the regrettably short-lived B5: Crusade series? Or B5 movies like Thirdspace?

You're a big meanie. :P

You're a big meanie. :P

Yep. Does this make it all better?

Ooooh. Shiny. I'd better wait till I'm done to start reading it though, don't want to hit ay spoilers... ;)

MunchenKay forevah!(I like this so much I had their passion drive them into a garbage dumpster once. Also as a cuffoon homage...link available on request
Tim/Claire
McCoy/Claire- I've never written L&O, but had I? OTP.
Never thought of Stabler/Cabot but I might now. Maybe in the shower.(evil smile)
Faith/Spike on Buffy. Hot, hot.
Logan/Olivette-esp. since I'm the only one who would want Logan/Me.

You have MunchenKay that I haven't read? Are you holding out on me, girl?! (and yes... I realize I still need to catch up on the really long Angel crossover)

And are you going to do anything more with Queer Eye for the Homicide Guy? Instant classic!!

Maybe you should join

thursday100 and write drabbles with me...

No...I thought you'd seen it...It's Homicide/ Buffy, based on the Buffy episode "Band Candy"(everybody acts like teenagers because of Sunnydale High's magically altered band chocolate. For the sake of this story they are Sunnydale Homicide...it's AU.)
Read. Enjoy. My apologies for the length.(it's hard being a chick with size issues.)
http://archive.shriftweb.org/archive/22/sweetsfor.html

Oooh!! Actually I have read this one!! It's terrific!!

Thanks...if I die now, fandom will say "Oh, man, Dumpster Sex Woman died." But I thought it was a nice echo of that Emma Zoole thing.
Munch and Kay were the most fun to make teens of. Frank was the hardest...I was most like Teen Timmy...my God, so awkward.

Dude, I don't think Frank EVER was a teenager.

Hey, have you read any of the stuff at Autofocus? Site seems mainly dead, but there's a lot of good reading.

http://evolfic.com/autofocus/index2.html

I'm assuming you've checked out 11 Cents and Schism's webpages? MORE QUEER EYE DAMMIT!!!

Yep...some excellent writers at autofocus...wish they hadn't scattered to the four winds quite so much. I love Jason Shadrick's MunchnKay...there's one in particular that I read a lot for...um, research purposes.Yeah, that's the ticket...all about the narrative arc. And Gordon Pratt committed suicide.
I'd love to write more QE but I have Kay's fashion sense.(when I'm not pseudogoth.).I need some technical advice for Afters for the guys

Semi-official: Logan and Olivet. Totally.

I giggled at one of your comments on cleolinda's journal and snuck a peek at your journal. This entry made me giddy! I've been watching season 4 H:LOTS for the first time, and I was convinced that Munch had a raging crush on Kay. I poked around the 'Net for fanfic confirmation but hardly found a thing. Hooray for you!

Oh man! If you want MunchenKay, you came to the right place. I'll set you up with some recommendations tomorrow! :)

Let's see about setting you up with some fanfic.

Three of the best places to find Homicide fanfic:
11 Cents. This is the only one of the three that's still active -- occasionally something new will come through on the Yahoo group. Worth a join.
Autofocus
Schism

(That's the good thing about Homicide fanfic: there's not much of it, but because you just about had to have a brain to get the show, most of what's out there is pretty good.)

Just about anything I recommended over at

crack_van:
http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=crack_van&keyword=Homicide+Fanfic+Recs&filter=all

Especially good MunchenKay:
http://www.livejournal.com/community/crack_van/116828.html
http://www.livejournal.com/community/crack_van/117167.html
http://www.livejournal.com/community/crack_van/128338.html
http://www.livejournal.com/community/crack_van/113254.html
http://www.livejournal.com/community/crack_van/128667.html

chicating is the reigning Queen of MunchenKay. Her journal and fic's chock-full of shippy goodness, but this one that she recently wrote takes the cake:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/chicating/46449.html

And then, there's my humble contribution to the genre:
http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=1271957

Hope you enjoy! :)

Wow, that is incredibly generous (and, I assume, was time-consuming) on your part. But having read your fic (tee hee...I have yet to meet Falsone and am already very, very afraid) and the highly recommended "take the cake" story (hatchi-matchi!), I know I'll be getting very little work done tonight!

Thanks again! You're awesome!

Oh, believe me, I'm just thrilled that there are other people to discuss Homicide with! It gets lonely sometimes... *sniffle* Please do let me know what you think... and I'm glad mine made you laugh! I do my best to bring in Homicide at

thursday100 when appropriate, too.

Aww, it gets lonely for me, too, as I am one of those sucks who didn't watch it when it aired and am living through the DVD releases, knowing full well they will dry up all too soon. And after the scene in "Sniper" where Munch hustles Kay to the car sent my "aww" meter through the roof, I was dying to find anyone to talk to about how darn cute and angsty the Munch/Kay relationship was. So thanks for humoring me.

At this point, I assume it would be okay if I friended you? 'Cause I'll be having all sorts of problems come the Season 5 release in August!

Oh, certainly! I'd be delighted! :)

Official-In-My-Head canon would be Munchenkay. There's also Munch and Jeffries. I don't care what anyone says, they were into each other. They were totally flirting with each other. I know this because of that sexy little insult war they had going.

I gues Munch/Olivia would qualify as "Because I said so" canon. There's not a whole lot to back it up, but I really like this pairing. I can picture the two of them...comforting each other. They're both so angsty.

Ah, I've noticed and much admired your icons, especially that one. I lust for a MunchenKay icon, but unfortunately suck at making icons.

Here's a link to a fanfic recommendation I made in

crack_van that you might enjoy:

http://www.livejournal.com/community/crack_van/128667.html

Oooh! Another goodie, with more Jeffries!

http://www.livejournal.com/community/crack_van/116828.html

My God that has to be some of the best fiction I've ever read. It's precisely why I'm so apprehensive about writing my own fiction involving Munch. I especially loved that "Fall of a Sparrow" fic. That was beautiful and so bittersweet. I just purchased S4 of Homicide so now I can see all the MunchenKay for myself.

I can't begin to tell you how much I love good writing, especially when it involves characters that I adore.

And I didn't make these icons by the way. They were created by the talented Starlight1221. I'll post some for you:

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v164/Pendragon77/mlmirror.gif

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v164/Pendragon77/munchonelook.jpg

I requested those two. I got the lines from some French poems.

Here are the rest:

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v164/Pendragon77/munchjeffremember.jpg

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v164/Pendragon77/livmunch.jpg

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v164/Pendragon77/livmunchthere.jpg

Is it the actual style of the icons that you admire or is it the pairing? It would be nice to meet another individual who likes Munch/Olivia and Munch/Jeffries. I keep thinking of Fall of a Sparrow and I'm hoping that someone, if not myself, will write Munch/Olivia with the same kind of passion.

I'm so glad you enjoyed the fics!

The icons are all so lovely! I think the style moreso than the pairing, because MunchenKay is my OTP, but if it's well-written Munch, I'm there, no matter the pairing! :)

Yes!! Write MunchFic!! You know you want to!!

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Levels of canon (heavy on the Homicide/L&O/Bab5 references)

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B5 spoilers

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Okay, linkage.

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